Lori Owens 01 - Life on the Road, Psychic Encounters, and Unconventional Upbringing

Lori Owens 01 - Life on the Road, Psychic Encounters, and Unconventional Upbringing

He is on his email to call me. Our cable company is going to be turning off our cable for an hour today, at some point. Okay. So if the line just falls down, we know. Well, if we become disconnected, my cell number is, let me give you my cell number. Yeah. Area code 949. Yeah. 370. 370. 11. 11. 79. 79. Okay. Good. Also, I sent over some pictures. Did you get them? I didn't check my e-mail yet, so I will. Well, I sent them to Jeff, because I don't have your e-mail, but I sent them to Jeff. So he can look on his Jeff at William J. Great. I was also yesterday, I found some, one document that I thought you might like to read.

I could send it over to you later. It's a report on Ted's trip to Europe in, I think, 1973, and it's really long, and he's just describing his journey and what it was like. I'll send it over later today. I tore my photo album apart this morning and enlarged some pictures. Wow. I got a new machine last night, which we really needed one. We had the other one, the scanner didn't work, and then I had a laser that we wanted to. We just wanted to replace it with one. We had two printers, so we replaced it with one. So that's what I was doing last night. My husband set it all up. Nice. Not too familiar with all of it yet.

And, of course, I can't play with it too much today because of not knowing when the power is going to go out or the cable. So, I've actually turned our computers off. Yeah. Just in case. Thanks a lot for sending them already, some of them. Oh, yeah. You're welcome. I'm glad they went through without the cable going out. But anyway, you know, just so that we don't lose any information on our computers, I turned them off. Yeah. Yeah. So, I was wondering if you could maybe give a description of, since I still haven't seen actually the Patricia scent, of what your father looked like, how you remember him best. I remember, well, I remember my father with short hair. I certainly never saw him with long hair. seen him last.

Um, he was tall. Mm-hmm. And a portly. Mm-hmm. Mm. Gosh. Uh, I don't know. What kind of clothes would he wear, for instance? What type of outfit? Uh, um, hmm. Flags and a shirt. Mm-hmm. I think he liked flag shirts. things like that um he didn't dress in a conventional sense but you know he i don't know just like yeah he he was real slim in his in his younger days pretty slim and actually i remember him more i remember him more well he had this Thinning gray hair. Sort of curly. He had the bald pattern going on, which our son has inherited. Poor thing. He was very handsome in his younger day. In fact, I did send over a picture of him in his younger day.

Is this the picture of the knife-throwing days? Well, no. This was a picture perhaps in the 19—I think it was probably taken in the 1950s. He did a lot of—he did entertaining, and it was probably a publicity picture. But he was very handsome. I think people used to think he— I don't know if you, you didn't know who Bob Crosby was, but there was somebody named Bob Crosby. I think he was Bing's brother. Mm-hmm. And he resembled him. But he was very handsome. Uh-huh. Very debonair, had a very charismatic personality. He actually had a real good social life. Uh-huh. Did you have a lot of people coming over in the house, or what was it like in your house? Well, it was just He and I for a number of years.

I think he had me, he was divorced from my mother, I think when we were probably maybe two and three. We were 15 months apart between my brother and I. And he took me and my mother took my brother. Although there were times where my brother and I would be together. Yeah. You know, when we were real young. We were probably together more often than not when we were real young. And then when I was about seven, my father; I went to live with my dad, and basically it was he and I until I was about 12, in which case then I went back to my mom. And then I was with my brother from 12 to 18, or 11. But when I did live with my father, he was a single father taking care of his daughter, so he would place me with other people to take care of me. Well, he paid them to take care of me. So I wasn't always with my dad. More often than not, I was not with him, but he would come and visit me. Okay.

Pretty chaotic, yeah, you know, but as a child, you don't really realize that. I felt very secure when I was with him, and um, gosh, I mean, if we didn't [pause], I never went hungry; I never even if we slept in the car, I had we had pillows and he put his coats over me and I was always warm. Never felt as if we were ever homeless. Although, you know, we never were. But we did go across, we did go around the United States. So we did sleep in the car a lot when we traveled around the United States. And did you make a lot of stops, places where you would stay longer, or were you just on the road constantly, or what was it like? Well, no, let's see. I'll chronicalize this for you.

Let's see. We were, we were, First, I remember he was working in a hospital. He would take me to visit him in the hospital while he was working, and that was kind of, I loved that. We were very, very close, he and I. Let's see. I think when I was about seven, we lived in Fort Worth in Dallas. I remember for a while my brother lived with us, and then he shipped it back to my mother. And I went on with my father, I think, to Fort Worth. I was put into a prep school for a while. Wait a minute, before that I was, no, before that I was actually taken away from him and put into a home. Okay. Put into a state home. He was working in the steel mill.

And he was working at night, and what he would do was pay a young teenage girl to come and stay with me until I fell asleep. And I woke up in the middle of the night one night, and we had this ventriloquist doll that was sitting up on the dresser, and it scared me. You know, being so young, you know, your imagination just away from you yes and and so I went to sleep downstairs in the hallway of the apartment building behind the entry door yeah and I think somebody found me or maybe he didn't maybe they I don't know maybe they didn't know I was behind this door and he I wasn't there when he got home and they had the police maybe I don't know but at any rate um after that I was taken and I was He had to take me to a state home, which I didn't know.

He just walked me up to the doorstep, and then he turned around and walked away. You know, he gave me a hug, and then he turned around and walked away. And I just remember being taken up this spiral staircase and looking out at this big window at him walking away. It really did something to me as far as abandonment. You know, that one incident was kind of pivotal in my childhood. Yes. That didn't really affect me until later, but it was. You know, I didn't understand. And, of course, he would come and visit me. I think I had to be there for six weeks. And he would come and visit me, and I really was withdrawn from the other girls in the dormitory and I didn't eat. You know, I was very upset.

I was traumatized. So he finally, at one point, he did come and get me. But he wasn't allowed to take you earlier, or why were you there? I had to be there for six weeks. He had to make changes and adjustments in his life in order to get me back, probably. I'm just guessing. Yeah. And there were some weekends where all the girls were gone, and I would just be sitting there on the rainy days by myself on the weekends, because maybe he couldn't come and see me. I don't know. And did it change the kind of bond you had with your father? No, no. I loved him so much. I wanted to be with him. And I just couldn't understand where he was. Yeah. So he would come and see me usually at dinner time.

And, you know, of course, I wouldn't be able to eat after that. I remember that. But after six weeks, after about a six-week period, he did come and get me for good. He came and got me and took me away. And it was wonderful. He had left his steel mill job. And we went to San Antonio. And I remember we went to some, I don't know, probably seedy hotel. But, you know, we went up to the room and it was pouring rain. And I laid down and put my head on his chest. Listening to his heartbeat. And I was just so happy to be with him. And we took a nap. And then after that, he took me out. He got me a new blouse in town. And we went for Chinese food.

We went for Chinese food dinner. We stayed in that hotel while he did his Bible selling. Uh-huh. You heard about that. I read about that. He sold Bibles. And it was in San Antonio. And the streets were The streets where he sold, of course, were, they weren't paved. They were like dirt roads. These were poor homes, but they loved the Bible. They knew that. And there was always like a little corner store that I would hang out in while he was selling Bibles. And then after a while, he left that. We took a bus to Fort Worth. He met his brother. His brother was there, his brother Jack. And we didn't have any money when we got to Fort Worth. I remember we were sitting in a cafe, and he said, he was having coffee or something.

He said, 'We've got to die,' and that's all we have. And I was a kid. And was it a worry, or was it like? It didn't worry me. I never worried with him. You know, with my father, I don't think you ever worried with him. Uh-huh. He always made, he always took care of things some way or another. He had the abilities to do whatever to, you know. Life was never dull with him. Uh-huh. So we stayed with his brother for a little bit. And then I guess, and then I was put into a parochial school for about six months. Uh-huh. And I remember every night. I didn't initially have the uniform, but my father just started working and he would build upon the uniform and the required requirements.

So every once in a while the men would bring me another blouse or a skirt, you know, the shoes or whatever. So I think by the time, you know, over a period of time I had all of those required uniform. And then after that, let's see, well, he would come and visit me. There were some weekends where he didn't, and some other families would take me to their place on weekends. And what kind of activities, was he at this time working as a healer, or what did he do? No, I think he was working for, he was,

Ziegler? Not Ziegler. There was a very wealthy person in Fort Worth that had, he worked for him as a secretary at that time. But he was also, that was when he started his SI, or I don't know if he called him SI at the time, but that's when he first started

talking about, you know, and starting a group. In fact, I think I've got those records. I think I've got some of those records in my big suitcase. I have a big suitcase of those records where he started his first communicating. And he had a big group of people and a big following. And then he became, then he started his hypnotism business. Uh-huh. Which seemed to be very, very successful. Around which year is this, round and about? Around that much, I think, this year. I'm guessing. And what did he do with the, did he hypnotize people, or how did he use it? Yeah, he would hypnotize people to help them in their lives. Whatever problem that they had. And he had a special hypnosis machine that he used, which seemed to be very effective.

And it would blink lights, and there were like alpha, beta, gamma, you know, whatever they were most comfortable with. You know, it was either very slow or a little bit faster, a little bit faster after that. So whatever they were most comfortable with, he used that. It was a great tool. And he had an office, and we were just very happy for, you know, a couple of years. He did a lot of; I just knew that there were a lot of people who were very happy with him. And he was very successful, and, you know, he would; We went out for dinner just about every night. Mm-hmm. I said, well, where do we want to go for dinner tonight? So I got a little spoiled with that. Uh-huh.

And then there was a problem with the AMA. Mm-hmm. What's the AMA? The AMA is the American Medical Association who took him to trial. But while the trial was going on, he had his lawyer; I don't know. We weren't there for the trial, actually. His lawyer represented him. At that time, my father just put me in the car, took me out of school, and we went around the United States. We just drove around the United States. It was a great adventure. I think I was about 10. This was after the trial or during? During the trial. Uh-huh. And we went around the United States. It was a great adventure. He was the type of person who would see a sign for some attraction. I think it was the Carlsbad Caves.

He saw a sign for the Carlsbad Caves and, oh, let's go see those. And then he would just take off, and we would go down that road and go see the caves. There was no plan. We would just drive. We drove all the way to the United States, and actually it was such a valuable time for me because I learned about all of the different states, you know, and the terrain and the weather and the people. It was really fascinating. And you were all this time together, or were there more people with you by now? No, it was just my father and I. And then when we got back, we found out that his attorney had lost the case, or, you know, the case was lost, and he had to, you know, stop his business.

And so we packed everything up, and I think he might have even have lost his car at that point. So we had a car, you know, when people pay to transport. I don't know how. I don't know what it's called, but if somebody needs to transport a car from one state to another, they hire people to drive it for them. So we actually drove to Seattle, which is where my mother lived at the time. We drove to Seattle from Texas in a Cadillac. Wow. Naturally, he would find a Cadillac to drive in. So that was pretty nice. And we got up to Seattle, and I think it was about 11 or 12. For some reason, my brother and I were told we weren't supposed to see each other. Sure you were.

Yeah, but we didn't, I think my mother really was sort of upset that we were in town. She was pregnant with her, you know, with my younger half-brother. And she already had another little girl. She actually had two sets of children that were 15 months apart. A girl and a boy. Yeah. So she had a little toddler girl, and then she had a little, she was expecting her second child with my stepfather, so she wasn't happy we were in town. Uh-huh. So there was a little bit of a rift there. But really, my brother and I were so close. So we were, we only lived half a mile away. Yeah. So we would sneak, we would sneak and see each other every day. At some point, my father decided to get remarried.

He had a girlfriend in Fort Worth, Martha, and he decided to bring her to Seattle and get married. And I think I was about 12 or 13. Then my mother and my stepfather moved back down to California. I think I was probably a very good babysitting age at that time. Mm-hmm. So it was convenient to have me around. Uh-huh. So my brother went to live with my father, and I went to live with my mother. Uh-huh. You swapped. Yeah. And I don't know. Then my father moved from Seattle with Martha to San Diego where she had Beau. And at that time, for some reason, my father came, and I was in junior high school, and just out of the blue, he came and he picked me up and took me back down to San Diego.

I had no warning. I wasn't too happy. I mean, I was happy to be with him, but I had just You know, I've been living with my mother for six months, and I was in junior high school, and I've made friends, and that was a little difficult. Yeah. So I went back to live with my dad and Martha, and my brother was there. I was happy to be with my brother. And what kind of a family life did you have at that time? What kind of a what? Family life. What was it like in San Diego with the four of you? Oh, it was, it was. Interesting. Mostly it was with my brother, and we were in junior high school. My brother and I did all kinds of things to entertain ourselves.

We didn’t have any money, so my brother and I; I remember we wanted a Clue game, you know, a board game. And so he and I went and mowed lawns together so we could scrape up enough money to get our Clue game. And then for Christmas, my father gave us a really interesting; he gave us, he didn’t really give Christmas gifts, so this was kind of a big deal that he even gave Christmas gifts. But he gave us a basketball, this was a joint present to Rick and I, a basketball and a microscope. Uh-huh. Well, I was 13. I don’t think either one of us; the microscope was kind of interesting for a little bit. But we really, really liked the basketball.

And the great thing about that was he actually walked with us to the basketball court. My dad did, and the three of us would play on the basketball court. So that was probably the best part of that gift. But he was at that point pretty preoccupied with; he was selling swimming pools at that point. And he wasn't really happy. Selling swimming pools, I don't think, was what he wanted to do. And I think that's when he started drinking. Okay. Yeah. And did he do any PK things during this time? Not that I know of. Uh-huh. Not that I know of. So. And what other jobs do you know of that he had? I know the knife throwing, Bibles. Well, that's when he started the knife throwing, I think. Uh-huh. Was probably then.

And he decided to quit the swimming pool business. And from there we went to Hollywood. We lived in North Hollywood for a little bit. I went to junior high school there. I was trying to count how many junior high schools I went to. I think I went to five junior high schools and four high schools. I'm trying to figure it out. I have no idea how many grade schools I went to. But when I was reading the book, when I was reading Jeff's book, and they were all over the place, all these different addresses. Well, you know, the kids-how many schools did they go to? You'd have to, you know, it didn't really change. No? No, I mean, he was just as, you know, I'm sure Bo and Teddy went to just as many schools as I did, probably.

Mm-hmm. What was it like to be moved around all the time? Was it his choice usually, or what was it good for, all the moving? I don't know. Probably, I don't know. I just, I don't. Whenever the whim, I guess, would strike him, we would move. I remember in Hollywood, he had, they, Martha and My dad had a nice throwing engagement, I think it was in Sacramento, and they took me out of school and they left my brother alone. And at one point, and I felt really bad for my brother. He was all alone in this place, poor kid. And I couldn't wait to get back to him. And then I remember. At one point, they had gone on a knife-throwing engagement. Well, see, Beau was a baby, so it was handy to have me as a babysitter.

But they did go on one knife-throwing engagement where they left the both of us alone. But we did wind up being visited by the police at midnight and taken to headquarters where my mother and my stepfather had to come and get us. They lived fairly close by. They lived in Englewood. At any rate, then after Hollywood, we just picked up in the middle of the night and left. In the middle of the night. We've got to go. Probably maybe we didn't have the money for the rent. I really don't know. But we packed all of our belongings in the car and off we went. And we went to Las Vegas. We stayed there for a little bit. Is this the time when he caused the storm? I don't know. Later.

I don't know. I was, I don't know. My brother and I went off to the tennis courts and played tennis all day. I think he was trying to win some money in the casino with the dice. I don't think that worked, though. So we did. We did stay at the Salvation Army hotels, I called them, which were very nice, by the way, across the country. I always give to the Salvation Army whenever I can. I think Salvation Armies are better than the Red Cross. They really do what they say. So we left. We left Las Vegas and we went to New Orleans, and we went through there. We just kind of drove up, you know, through the bottom of the country, up to the east coast. And we went to Biloxi, Mississippi.

We stayed there for a while. And after that, he was all the while doing the knife throwing. Yeah. So maybe he had some lifelong engagements already set up. And then after that, we went up through Texas. Oh, I have to back up a little bit. We had all of our belongings in the car, as well as our family: four people, right? Oh, let's see. Five? No. Four people and a baby. Yeah. An infant. Bo was an infant. And at one point we were in Palm Springs. And my dad had the knife throwing board on top of the car. And I remember when we were in Palm Springs, all of the well-to-do people walking up and down the street, and we looked like the Beverly Hillbillies.

That's my brother at one point couldn't open up the door to get inside, so he climbed through the window into the back seat. And I was hysterical. I thought it was the funniest thing. I would stand back and I would look at our car. I thought the whole situation was hysterical. And by the time we got to Florida, Martha had a nervous breakdown. Seriously, she had a nervous breakdown. Yeah. I think we also had a dog. Let's throw that in there. We had a dog, too. So it was Dad and Martha and Rick and I, the baby and the dog, with a nice ring board on top. Yeah. And at night, we would usually sleep in the car, or we would stay at a Salvation Army respite. I don't know what you call them.

They had nice clean beds and breakfast, you know. They were very nice. At any rate, let's see. Dad would sleep on the knife-sharing board at night. He'd park at a rest stop or somewhere, and the family, we'd all sleep in the car. And then Dad would sleep on top of the knife-sharing board, on top of the car, which I really thought was kind of funny, and I still do. It kind of reminds me of Snoopy on top of his towel. I don't know why I get that feeling, but he was just such a character. The whole situation to me was just funny. To him, too, or how did he? Oh, no, he was serious. I mean, no, this was, this was, no, it wasn’t, I don’t know if it was funny to him.

I don’t think he was laughing, but I was. It was sort of comical. Uh-huh. And then we got to Georgia. We stayed with some people there for a few days. We went up to Myrtle Beach, South Carolina, and we stayed there for quite a while, maybe a few months. My dad and Martha were doing their knife throwing back there. So they did that for quite a long time. The knife throwing? Yeah, he did. I miss Phoenix. We were in Phoenix, too, for quite a while. Oh, shoot. What is that? Phoenix was between, I think after we left San Diego, we went to Phoenix. Sorry. I have this written down, and I'm not looking at it. I'm so sorry. I think it was after San Diego. You'll have to squeeze Phoenix in there.

Okay. He actually sold blood, and we lived on government surplus food when we were there. But my brother and I had a wonderful time there. It was one of our best times together. And then after that, we went across the country. And what do you remember of? You were telling yesterday a little bit about the effect, the losing of his practice as a hypnotist, had on him. I think that really he worked hard and he was so proud of his accomplishments. It was probably the most conventional he'd ever been in his life. Actually sitting in with society and having friends and having a business. Being successful and knowing that you're doing good; it was, I think, a very good time for him. And I think when that happened, I think it just commemorated him.

And he just, you know, sort of lost it maybe for a while, but then he kind of got it back together again. But it was changed. It did change him. Mm-hmm. And something that stands out to me in reading the book by Jeffrey is that it appears that he took you along quite often to, I was reading about one kind of healing in a hospital where you were present and also with the conversations when you went to visit the CIA, for instance. What was it like for you to be taking along to things like that? Do you remember a lot of it? Little visits and you know as well as a kid being involved in in those things where you know that was well like with him there was just never his own moment there was always something and hoping that you know what he was, he was doing and whoever he was helping would work and it usually did um and just being really proud of him for that

and being there and being a part of it. You felt like you were a part of it. I don't remember the CIA. Did he say that we went to the CIA? I think I read in your father's book, the one about contacting the size, that he went to speak to Mr. Clark of the CIA and took you with him. But I don't know. Oh, you mean I met this Mr. Clark? Is this the same gentleman who just wrote a book recently? I don't know. Wow. You know, I don't remember that. He went to see a lot of people. We did a lot of things. I wish I had his book. It feels like he mentioned a lot of things that I didn't know, and wasn't aware of.

And was it very dominant in your life, or in his life? The book? No, not the book, the whole idea of his powers and trying to develop them. Was it very dominant? You know what, I think, okay, after we left Myrtle Beach, we had a rented house. And this is where I started to sort of stray. I think I was 15 at the time. And we were living in a rented house, and I was coming into my own, more or less. You know, the cutest guy in the whole school was walking me around the classes, and I was voted a princess, and you know, my birthday came around, and my grandparents sent me some money, a check for $25, I think, which at the time was a lot of money.

And I wanted a pair of penny loafer shoes like everybody else had. Now, granted, I had been working at the bingo parlor the whole summer while Dad and Martha were doing their knife-throwing act. I had been working at the bingo parlor making money. And I usually paid for all of my own things and helped the family out with whatever I had. And so when my grandparents, this check for the, no, I probably turned over my check. Dad, I'm sure I did. And at any rate, I needed some clothes. I wanted a pair of penny loafer shoes and a skirt, a couple of skirts and a couple of blouses, right? Uh-huh. I was ready to sort of fit in, you know? Mm-hmm. So, and I wasn't, and I think I wanted a sweater, too.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, simple things, simple pleasures. Something for yourself, yeah. Yeah. You know, I was 15, and, you know. It was kind of fun. I was getting a lot of attention, and I liked that. Good attention. So I asked my dad to take me to town to get me these things, and he was very upset with me. He said I should give him money to put it in a family pot. And I said, well, when we had left Fort Worth when I was a kid, I had $80 saved up in a savings account. You know, whenever my grandparents or mom or anybody sent me birthday money or whatever, I put it in a savings account. I was really proud of my little $80 savings account, which was quite substantial at that time.

Yeah. And so I asked my dad about that, and I said, Dad, what about the money from my savings account? I put that in the family pot, and I'm sure I was giving my paychecks over to him, too. And Dad said, what money? I don't remember. What money? And I said, see, that's my point. You don't remember that. But I do. And I said, I'll remember this, too. So I said, 'Drive me to town.' I wanted to get these things. And so he was just huffing and puffing. He was so upset with me because I was giving him this money. But I knew he wouldn't remember it. I would, you know. And it was my birthday. And so after, I had just enough money after my purchases.

And oh, he was; I made him sit and he had to watch me trying on shoes and doing all this stuff. He was so mad. And I didn't care. I wanted this stuff. And so anyway, then we got back into the car and I had just enough money. We stopped at the grocery store. I want a birthday cake. Well, that really sent him over the edge. You know, spending a few dollars on a store-bought birthday cake when you know, the family didn't even have, according to him, enough, you know, money for food. But I don't care. I said, it's my birthday. I want a birthday cake. Yeah. And I made him stop, and we got a birthday cake and took it back, and I enjoyed it. He was fuming. Smoke was coming out of his ears.

Let's see. After that, we went to, after Myrtle Beach, we just picked up and got in the car, and then we went to Washington, D. C. And somehow, I don't know how he found these places, but there was downtown Washington, D.C. C., there was a building that had a couple of floors that were vacant, and so we stayed on; we stayed up there, and they had all there was – just tables. They only had tables, these big long tables, and that's where we slept on the big table. I don't know; we stayed there for a few days or a week, I don't know how long, and then we stayed with this lady in Virginia for maybe a week. And then after that, my father found a place.

I believe he refers to this place with Jeannie Mangels. She was renting her house out. She stayed in one room, and we had the rest of the house. And she must have been pretty entertained by her family. But we went to a school that was 95% black. Yeah? Uh-huh. Because this was over by the Maryland side. And I have to say, I have to say it was one of the best schools I ever went to. I really enjoyed that school. They were so nice. The kids were nice. I mean, there were some bad blacks, but I actually encountered worse blacks up in Seattle. You know, you just stayed away from them, just like anybody else. But the kids were really nice. The teachers were wonderful.

That was the last year my brother and I went trick-or-treating. We were 14, 15. And we were getting a little old, we realized, so that was it. Let me see, we got free lunches. I remember Martha would wait for us to have free lunches. We would have to pick up all of the, you know, trash and everything in the cafeteria. And then we would, my brother and I got the hot lunches. I was thrilled. I had no pride. I had no pride. I didn't care that we were white kids in a 95% black school picking up the lunch stuff so that we could have food, you know, lunch food, because it was great. We would just wait until everybody left, and I had a girlfriend, and my brother and I would clean off all the tables, and we got our free lunches, our free hot lunches.

So I was really grateful. I was really grateful for that. And somebody had left us. a box of food and a turkey for us at Thanksgiving. And you would think maybe you would be embarrassed over something like that. We were thrilled. You know, I felt thrilled. Because we actually had a nice Thanksgiving thanks to the, I was so grateful to whoever did that. At the time I thought, that was so nice of somebody to take the time to do that. But it meant a lot because we had a nice Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah, and I must have known I didn't have any money. Well, like when we were in South Carolina, I didn't have any money for gym clothes. I just had to sit out in the gym because I didn't have the gym clothes.

That was kind of embarrassing. Or being in a sewing class in Washington, D.C. C., and not having the money for the material. You know? So you can't pass sewing if you don't have material to sew. That was kind of embarrassing. I just sat there and watched everybody else sew. And how did Martha take the poverty and everything? You know, she just took it in stride, aside from her nervous breakdown in Florida. She took it in stride. I look back on it, and I don't know how she managed to get through it personally, as a partner. Dad was just different. I think he was a different kind of father and a different kind of husband. I can't imagine him as a husband. He certainly wouldn't do anything as participatory as mine.

I had to laugh in the book, in Jeff's book, where he talks about them being on a cabin on a lake and being invited for couples over for dinner. And knowing my father and Marcia, I really chuckled over it. I can't envision them having four couples over for dinner because they weren't the entertaining type. I don't think Martha cooked. I don't remember her cooking. Dad did most of it. So I don't know unless my dad made his famous pirate stew or fried chicken. I don't know what they served the people for dinner. What would you usually get for dinner? Well, pirate stew, you know, fried chicken. That's about it. I think sometimes I made goulash. I don't know. I don't really remember.